– posted by thehim
This week, Postman put up a post criticizing Goldy for his over-the-top comments during last week’s podcast. While he doesn’t call me out directly, he does seriously miscategorize one part of our conversation:
P-I columnist Joel Connelly, a guest at this week’s gathering, said the BIAW column about the arson was outrageous. Which prompted Goldstein to say:
I’ll tell you what, if you want to be outrageous about this, let’s go back to Nazi Germany for a moment and … let’s talk about the fire bombing which supposedly was blamed on ELF, on the Earth Liberation Front, because there is a sign there that says E-L-F. I think it’s more likely — more likely than mainstream environmentalists applauding this arson. I think it’s more likely that the BIAW, following in the pattern of the Nazis, firebombed those houses in the way the Nazi’s firebombed the Reichstag, because they’re certainly using it the same way. That’s exactly how they’re using it.
Goldstein asked his guests whether they agreed with his theory that the BIAW’s criticism of mainstream environmentalists was “projection” because the builders had done the arson themselves.
There was a yes, a “yeah, probably,” and a “yeah, a little.” Connelly was something of a moderating voice, answering, “Nein.”
Goldy asked us whether their willingness to label environmentalists as Nazis was a form of projection. It had nothing to do with whether or not they’d committed the arson (for which I still have no idea and am not interested in guessing the outcome). Hopefully, Postman will update his post to reflect that.
After that, he then links to one of my quotes from the podcast (not aware that it was me):
Another panelist, and I couldn’t be sure who it was other than it wasn’t Connelly or Goldstein, pushed the Nazi analogy further in an effort to get Connelly to agree with the group.
Joel, let me put it this way here: If the government came to the BIAW and said, ‘Hey, you know what, we’re going to build concentration camps and we’re going to put all the Mexicans in concentration camps,’ you know the BIAW would be like, ‘Can we build the concentration camps?’
This was obviously meant to be funny, but I do think there’s a certain amount of truth to looking at the question in that light. If you’re going to have some basis for determining who the real “Nazis” are in a society, the best way is to see which people are more able to tolerate injustices against other subsets of the population. I have trouble believing that the BIAW would care in the slightest if they were profiting from something that was wholly unjust. Maybe they have examples from their past that would prove me wrong, but from what I’ve seen, I doubt it. It may or may not be projection (which was why I gave kind of a “sort of” answer to Goldy’s question), but the BIAW certainly has an odd persecution complex that quite transparently leads to inclinations to persecute others.
Typical extreme-left-wing ideology. Playing the nazi card and then pretending it was supposed to be funny.
Maybe if some of your relatives had been in the holocaust you wouldn’t be so quick to be funny. Maybe you would have the maturity to distinguish between real nazis and those that don’t share your opinion.
What a little twit you are.
Of course you’ll reply saying that you’re of jewish faith, that’s how little twits act.
Maybe if some of your relatives had been in the holocaust you wouldn’t be so quick to be funny.
Some of my relatives were in the holocaust, jackass.
Of course you’ll reply saying that you’re of jewish faith, that’s how little twits act.
If you knew that, then why did you leave such a retarded comment?
I think it shows your lack of perspective that you equate “people more willing to tolerate injustices” to Nazis. The Nazis were perpetrating genocide against the Jews (and others), not just, say, looking the other way when someone used racial slurs.
It’s this kind of lack-of-moral-seriousness on the part of so-called “liberals” that leads moderate Americans to vote for people like G.W. Bush.
Allen,
Within Nazi Germany, there were millions of people who were “willing to tolerate injustices,” and THAT’S WHY THE HOLOCAUST HAPPENED. Very few Nazis actually killed Jews themselves. They were simply people who were “willing to tolerate injustices” because they bought into fear-based propaganda.
And if you’re a moderate American who voted for G.W. Bush, you’re either a complete idiot, or you don’t know what the word moderate means (which would mean that you’re both).
Well, you can certainly use the word Nazi to describe all of the people who were members of the party, approximately 8.5 million at the end of WWII. However, when I (and, I think, most people) use the word, I think specifically of the party’s leadership (Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels, and the like) and their institutions (the Gestapo, the SS, etc.) who perpetrated the Holocaust.
But I maintain my larger point. There is a difference between Adolf Hitler, who ordered the extinction of the Jews, and the average Joe Blow (Josef Blotz?) who was a member of the Nazi Party. Your usage of Nazi in your reply indicates that you don’t make the distinction. There’s also a difference between members of the Nazi Party, who might agitate for the elimination of the Jews, and the BIAW who want to build things for a profit.
The BIAW’s use of the term Nazi to describe environmentalists was silly and immature. Goldstein’s theorizing that the BIAW is “projecting” because they are Nazis is also silly and immature. And Goldstein’s theory — that the BIAW is more likely to have committed arson than the Earth Liberation Front — is absurd. Several E.L.F. members have pled guilty to or been convicted of arson.
Well, you can certainly use the word Nazi to describe all of the people who were members of the party, approximately 8.5 million at the end of WWII. However, when I (and, I think, most people) use the word, I think specifically of the party’s leadership (Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels, and the like) and their institutions (the Gestapo, the SS, etc.) who perpetrated the Holocaust.
You can think whatever you want, but the reality is that any person who was in that party was a Nazi. Just like everyone registered in the Republican Party is a Republican and everyone registered in the Democratic Party is a Democrat.
When we look at Nazi Germany, we often ask ourselves how it could have happen, that so many people turned a blind eye to that atrocity. It didn’t happen just because of Hitler, Himmler, and Goebbels, it also happened because regular people in Germany listened to their crazy ideas and supported them.
But I maintain my larger point. There is a difference between Adolf Hitler, who ordered the extinction of the Jews, and the average Joe Blow (Josef Blotz?) who was a member of the Nazi Party.
Sure, but both deserve a certain level of blame for what happened.
Your usage of Nazi in your reply indicates that you don’t make the distinction.
You’re right. I’m not making the distinctions that you want to make, and I’m very adamant about the importance of not doing so.
There’s also a difference between members of the Nazi Party, who might agitate for the elimination of the Jews, and the BIAW who want to build things for a profit.
Yes, but then are those who were in Nazi Germany who were interested in profits. Some of them found it convenient to go along with the Nazis because it was good for their bottom line. I suggest you rent Schindler’s List, which did a good job of capturing these competing dynamics and illustrated what happens when an individual decides to act on his conscience. My whole point here is that I have serious doubts that the people who run the BIAW have the same kind of moral courage that Oscar Schindler did.
As for Goldy, I’ll let him defend himself. I don’t agree with him that the BIAW was likely responsible for the arsons. As far as I know, it was Clay Bennett. (joke) But I do wonder what the hell is wrong with the BIAW for believing that calling environmentalists as a whole “Nazis” would help them in any way.